Curse

zling · Mar 31, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I dont see the problem with Aegis... even combining it with GoLE.
first you guys complained about enchantment removal being too easy, especially Avathar of Grenth, than they nerf enchantment removal(especially drain enchantment which flew right off the window) and now you're complaining about enchantments being too powerful...
you guys will always find something to complain about, so instead of complaining and knocking your head against a brick wall go around the wall... it's not like Aegis chain is overpowered in the first place nor is it something new, jeez...

Raxxman · Mar 31, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I think the problem isn't actually aegis, it's with skills like warriors cunning.

It's a nice skill in theory but 60 second cool down is just stupid.

the two sweeps, and warriors strike are alright but energy spamming isn't good for a warrior, and the overall damage output, which is a warriors job, is low. Sun and Moon is also good but requires 8 adrenal and if you're gaining at 50% rate it's not exactly pressure.

Currently warriors have nearly no ability to shutdown hexes since the Lt. Helm got knocked for 6, and next to no ability to shutdown blocks, making it far too easy to take a warrior out of the picture, and a lot of hassle to get him back in.

I think if WC was halved in cool down it would get a fair bit more play.

Anyho thats my (warriors) perspective

kvndoom · Apr 01, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

While I would love to see Warrior's Cunning buffed, 30s would be too powerful. 60s is garbage, 45s would be garbage too. It's one of those skills that just can't be buffed due to abusive combinations. Consider this scenario: 2 W/Rt, every 30 seconds they can't be blocked or blinded for a good 10 seconds. When you consider how much unmitigated damage a warrior can do in 10 seconds, you see why this can't happen. Only hexes would be able to stop such an onslaught, and then you're forcing every team to bring a specific class (Necro or Mesmer) to counter a specific class. Right now (and probably forever), 8v8 is really just 6v6, because 2+ monks on each team is a given, except for gimmick builds. Forcing a dedicated anti-melee on every team will make it 5v5, worse than it already is.

Currently every caster class has decent warrior shutdown, but buffing Cunning would break that severely.

Wichtel · Apr 01, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Yust make cunning a stance. You can deside now if you want to hit or attack faster, that will solve the problem you talk about.

Raxxman · Apr 01, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

kiting also works.

twicky_kid · Apr 02, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Pressure builds are built around KD. If the target is KD its not healing, dealing dmg to you, and you put more pressure because now they can't kite. The problem is the war's bar is so damn crowded as it is they are hard to fit.

IB now at 8 seconds isn't as affective as it used to be but when it was 5 it was a lot of pressure. Not because of the dmg because the 2 sec KD every 5 seconds. Makes you rethink using that block skill again or be knock locked.

Aegis doesn't work on NPCs so I don't know where that comment was going.

Been watching a lot of games and aegis is in just about every one of them. Yet I see 3 war teams every where smashing them. If Aegis was such a problem those teams wouldn't be winning. Still haven't seen Rending touch on a war. Again crowded.

Spura · Apr 02, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I suggest running a paragon/mesmer with GTFE spam to power Mirror of Disenchantment. That is a gg for aegis. Or alternatively Me/E with GoLE spamming Mirror of Disenchantment.

Xenex Xclame · Apr 02, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

So , you go waste 25 energy every 10 seconds to remove
After 5 times:
2 Rof 1 guardian 1 protected spirit and 1 aegis?

You might as well just stick a mesmer on the monk and power leak them each time they try to throw up Aegis.

Bankai · Apr 02, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Pressure builds are built around KD. If the target is KD its not healing, dealing dmg to you, and you put more pressure because now they can't kite. The problem is the war's bar is so damn crowded as it is they are hard to fit.

IB now at 8 seconds isn't as affective as it used to be but when it was 5 it was a lot of pressure. Not because of the dmg because the 2 sec KD every 5 seconds. Makes you rethink using that block skill again or be knock locked.

Aegis doesn't work on NPCs so I don't know where that comment was going.

Been watching a lot of games and aegis is in just about every one of them. Yet I see 3 war teams every where smashing them. If Aegis was such a problem those teams wouldn't be winning. Still haven't seen Rending touch on a war. Again crowded.

No, they're not. Pressure builds are built around... pressure.

Who cares if they can knock you down with a really exotic skill noone uses, you'll have 50% chance to block anyway.

Shmanka · Apr 02, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A skill tailor-made to strip Aegis was added, a couple were added with extremely short cooldowns, what more do you want?

General counters is what I want, not specific counters. Specific counters does exactly what was pointed out earlier, restrict creativity in the creation of builds themselves.

There is a huge difference between this [skill]Avatar of Grenth[/skill] and this[skill]Shatter Enchantment[/skill].

One is enchantment removal on a stick, the other once only every 25 seconds. One was obviously more overpowered then the other there is no doubt in that. Yet enchantment removal past the avatar of grenth nerf is now useless once again. Anet needs to find an actual balance, sadly since all professions use enchantments except for a few I would have said perhaps the cooldown on such skills are all reduced by 5-10 seconds. SE and DE are not overpowered skills with lower cooldowns. It was all just previously abused beforehand. I say lower the energy gain on Drain Enchantment and lower its cooldown by 10 seconds, lower Shatter enchantment by 5 seconds on cooldown. Then make aegis a 3 second cast, so a spike is open during the cast time, I have no problem getting a spike through in 2 if the team is good yet I do think something is in order to make people stop abusing Aegis.

Spura · Apr 03, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

So , you go waste 25 energy every 10 seconds to remove

Not a problem on paragon. Usually they have enough energy to go around and all you need is to hit a target that is unlikely to have any other enchants with mirror of disenchantment.

I didn';t understand your post. Is what you wanted to say that you hit RoF 2 times with mirror of disenchantment? It is stupid to target monk or dervish with it.

Patccmoi · Apr 03, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

So , you go waste 25 energy every 10 seconds to remove
After 5 times:
2 Rof 1 guardian 1 protected spirit and 1 aegis?

You might as well just stick a mesmer on the monk and power leak them each time they try to throw up Aegis.

I think what he said pretty much came directly from GvG tournament where iQ did this tactic to get rid of it. Ensign was running a P/Me with Expel Hexes for elite, Leech Signet and Mirror of Disenchantment which he fueled with GftE! and used a bunch of adrenal spear attacks not to spend energy on anything else. Was actually a very interesting build and he was regularly using Mirror. And Mirror is pretty reliable... use it on a warrior or something, they're very rarely enchanted by anything else than Aegis unless they're focused.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 04, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Grenth's ability to destroy Aegis was a side-effect of what made it overpowered. The bad part of Grenth wasn't the Aegis counter, it was the way it stripped all single-target protective enchantments and allowed you to 'pressure' by simply training one target all day long.

Aegis is the opposite problem. Pressure builds are largely about overloading the enemy monks by forcing them to either spend all their energy on expensive prot, or use their skills on so many different targets that the recharges can't keep up. To do this, you constantly switch targets, suddenly converge for spikes, and generally keep the enemy monk's guessing what you're going to do next. Eventually, they make a mistake and you can capitalize on it.

With Aegis, there are no real mistakes to make. You put up Aegis and the prot is applied to everyone equally. Gone are the guessing games and trickery involved in swapping targets and staying ahead of the prot, instead you have to power through, which is boring from a gameplay perspective. Skills that are exceedingly powerful even in the hands of a bad player are not good for the meta, as a general rule.

Spura · Apr 04, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Yeah that build that IQ had, with Expel + Mirror of Disenchantment, I suggested it long ago, but my guild was unwilling to run this paragon(more specifically they were unwillign to run anything that wasn't copied off some top guild).

Best person to use MoD on is a ranger or something, warriors are more often targets of enchantments.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 04, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

The fact that Aegis still sees play on almost every team, even with a hard counter running around, should say something.

"You have to bring Skill X or you lose to Skill Y" shouldn't be what we are trying to promote anyway.

Bankai · Apr 04, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The fact that Aegis still sees play on almost every team, even with a hard counter running around, should say something.

"You have to bring Skill X or you lose to Skill Y" shouldn't be what we are trying to promote anyway.

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 04, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that.

Just about everyone thinks that

Master Ketsu · Apr 29, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

I could see it scaling on the same scale as Gaurdian, but really aegis is not overpowered at all. It must be chained, and its not difficult to remove.